Sep 11, 2010, 07:18 PM // 19:18
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#101
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Apok
We have all seen what they bring to the table when given time, and a team of only four people and a bunch of PvEers wanting their favorite classes buffed can only get so much done.
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Which is why they need to slightly increase the live team. Taking 4 people from GW2 to the GW1 team would only decrease work on GW2 by ~4% yet it would double the amount of people on GW1's team. The current of ratio of ~100 to 4 is kind of rediculous.
And FYI, I want my favorite class nerfed. Its already powerful enough.
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Sep 11, 2010, 08:09 PM // 20:09
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#102
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas
Guild: Reign of Judgment [RoJ]
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemming
On paper, yes, they're offered the opportunity to provide input in the process. Realistically, it seems like (at least for the PvP balance segment of the TK) their opinions are usually disregarded.
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From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
Quote:
Basically, it's like they have no plans and no timetable. I don't blame people for being upset about skill updates not being on time, but I don't know what to tell them. Literally, the Live Team has no deadlines, no timetable, and it seems like they have no real expectations. They ask us each time to just throw out ideas of what skills should be updated. Of course, idiots throw out insanely OP shit and they literally write them up as skills after about a month, and then we have to spend a month explaining why that shit is OP.
Eventually they kind of listen, but if you noticed with the Mesmer update, they really don't listen to us much. Hell, you should have seen Migraine when they first showed it to us. Basically the PvE version was PvP too, and they wouldn't listen to us about nerfing it. And Complicate was just as insane.
Either way, it's not like there's anything we can do. Half the TK left a few months into it, and the rest of them barely play the game. The PvP guys are good, but the devs don't listen to them. It just sucks.
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That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
Last edited by Karate Jesus; Sep 11, 2010 at 08:11 PM // 20:11..
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Sep 12, 2010, 12:19 AM // 00:19
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#103
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jul 2006
Profession: D/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
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Wow, that's some pretty hard hitting stuff. You have some genuine integrity, either to your friend or to Anet, for not using his rant to generate more hostility.
So basically it sounds like they really have just given up on GW1, and are just trying to make it look like they're trying in order to convince people to buy GW2. At least that's what I got out of it.
The no direction/timetable really is disgusting though. I honestly expected better from a company that "prides itself on making AAA MMO's. Lol.
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Sep 12, 2010, 02:27 AM // 02:27
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#104
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Oct 2005
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
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Thank you for sharing this. This was exactly how I imagined it turning it out, but it was nice to "hear" from someone who was actually a part of the TK.
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Sep 12, 2010, 02:46 AM // 02:46
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#105
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Academy Page
Join Date: Jul 2006
Guild: Knights and Heroes [Beer]
Profession: Mo/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
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If this is even partly true its a little sad. I mean it REALLY makes you want to....buy another of their games huh(Read: GW2).
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Sep 12, 2010, 02:48 AM // 02:48
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#106
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: The Netherlands
Guild: Are We Friends [NLT]
Profession: E/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
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Wow that sucks
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Sep 12, 2010, 03:22 AM // 03:22
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#107
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Jan 2010
Guild: [Pink]
Profession: P/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karate Jesus
From what I hear, it's the same way in the PvE balance segment.
I'll try to summarize what I've heard most recently, but don't take it as fact, because I'm not on the TK and don't know first hand. It went something like this:
That was basically his rant convincing me not to join it.
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If this is how Anet treats there customers... well this is pretty sad. I mean it really makes me rethink whether or not im actually going to buy GW2. Really Anet... the best way to promote your new game is to show your fans that you arn't just going to give up on them.
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Sep 12, 2010, 05:53 AM // 05:53
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#108
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Krytan Explorer
Join Date: Nov 2005
Profession: E/Mo
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Perhaps they are counting on us all being good little sheep and buying GW2 regardless? And the sad thing is that we probably will...
yeah, drop GW1 like a hot potato the minute the next big thing rolls around... really great PR guys.
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Sep 12, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26
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#109
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2008
Guild: Vent Rage [vR]
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jazilla
how long was it from the time they announced the mesmer skill update preview to when the released the mesmer skill update? they havent even released dervish preliminary update notes yet. it could take 2 months or longer from the time they release the prelim. notes to when the skills actually change. is anyone honestly that excited for derv changes? is it really that hard at the lifecycle of this game to change 10-20 skills(PVP ONLY) for the derv and paragon? i can see for PvE where that would take a lot longer to balance.
i'm really kind of over caring at this point.
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You'd be surprised actually. The coding of the guild wars client is horrendous. Quite honestly, it may be the most poorly coded MMO to have been spawned in the last 10 years. It takes a designer literally days to make small alterations ( I.E. number changes) to a single skill. Reworking a skill functionality takes longer. And every skill added to the game (I.E pvp/pve splits) degrades the performance of the client and its communications to the server causing more lag and connectivity/stability issues. It's the main reason why work on GW2 started almost immediately after nightfall launched, it was easier to just start over with a fresh game than to try and fix the problems with the gw1 client structure. Pretty much everything since the NF release has been a stall to keep people interested until GW2.
Last edited by Errant Venture; Sep 12, 2010 at 06:33 AM // 06:33..
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Sep 12, 2010, 06:31 AM // 06:31
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#110
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: The other side
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Honestly for the people complaining about no huge update this month or the ones prior. The game has been out for so long now, what more can they update? Sure a skill update can be thrown in but then it would just be followed by another nerfing those same skills. Finish up the game and if you don't like farming or grinding or talking to the community, imho just leave. Waiting a month for a miracle update that is going to miraculously make you love GW as much as you did at release probably isn't going to happen. Give up the fantasy.
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Sep 12, 2010, 06:57 AM // 06:57
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#111
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Wilds Pathfinder
Join Date: Jun 2008
Profession: W/
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Quote:
Basically, it's like they have no plans and no timetable. I don't blame people for being upset about skill updates not being on time, but I don't know what to tell them. Literally, the Live Team has no deadlines, no timetable, and it seems like they have no real expectations. They ask us each time to just throw out ideas of what skills should be updated. Of course, idiots throw out insanely OP shit and they literally write them up as skills after about a month, and then we have to spend a month explaining why that shit is OP.
Eventually they kind of listen, but if you noticed with the Mesmer update, they really don't listen to us much. Hell, you should have seen Migraine when they first showed it to us. Basically the PvE version was PvP too, and they wouldn't listen to us about nerfing it. And Complicate was just as insane.
Either way, it's not like there's anything we can do. Half the TK left a few months into it, and the rest of them barely play the game. The PvP guys are good, but the devs don't listen to them. It just sucks.
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TBH, if you talked to anyone who used to be on the PvP balance forums (which basically was the test krewe before A.Net decided to do their PR stunt and make it more open and known) then everything you stated there is nothing new. A.Net has always seeked input from players through the use of a private forum, and those players have always complained that A.Net hardly listens to their input and rather than them giving suggestions on changes they basically spend their time trying to plead with A.Net to tone down a lot of their original intentions because they would be even more game breaking then what the final results ended up being.
So the whole point I'm trying to make with this post is, there is nothing new about what you said. It has been happening since the beginning, and it will not change for Guild Wars 2. Guild Wars was still a very enjoyable game despite this, but it has always been obvious that the people in charge of balancing the game either don't care about balancing the game, or don't know how to. All they really ever did was force a meta shift to something extremely broken and then spend a few months trying to fill up the holes they dug by nerfing the skills they changed. All the test krewe ever was, was a publicly acknowledged balance forum with even less qualified people then those who had access to the original balance forums. Not that being qualified matters, when all we ever hear is that A.Net basically does what they want and only actually acts on the input once in a while.
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Sep 12, 2010, 09:12 AM // 09:12
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#112
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Desert Nomad
Join Date: Mar 2010
Guild: Anna
Profession: A/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aycee
Honestly for the people complaining about no huge update this month or the ones prior. The game has been out for so long now, what more can they update? Sure a skill update can be thrown in but then it would just be followed by another nerfing those same skills. Finish up the game and if you don't like farming or grinding or talking to the community, imho just leave. Waiting a month for a miracle update that is going to miraculously make you love GW as much as you did at release probably isn't going to happen. Give up the fantasy.
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Can you count the number of content updates since 2008 in PvP?
Apart of that , i don't know if you remember that update recently when they restricted some skills in codex. Seriously , how can you come with such an update. It looked like that they clearly don't play the game , or like they tried codex and lost to people using those skills , thus nerf..
But point is , the number of people who enjoy the game by farming ectos or doa 24/7 is easily 10 times higher than the whole pvp population so....
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Sep 12, 2010, 11:03 AM // 11:03
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#113
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Lion's Arch Merchant
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yup remove TA , and dont update the shitty meta GG anet.
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Sep 12, 2010, 11:51 AM // 11:51
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#114
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Guest
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That's what you get when you hire people who have no idea how to do their job... lazy to do simple PvP skill balance update, for PvE it takes a little more time but not months like it's taking Anet to update anything...
I don't understand why don't they just say: we don't care about GW1 anymore see you in GW2
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Sep 12, 2010, 01:36 PM // 13:36
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#115
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Lion's Arch Merchant
Join Date: Dec 2008
Guild: Funny Business Inc [FBI]
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Errant Venture
You'd be surprised actually. The coding of the guild wars client is horrendous. Quite honestly, it may be the most poorly coded MMO to have been spawned in the last 10 years. It takes a designer literally days to make small alterations ( I.E. number changes) to a single skill. Reworking a skill functionality takes longer. And every skill added to the game (I.E pvp/pve splits) degrades the performance of the client and its communications to the server causing more lag and connectivity/stability issues.
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This is actually very interesting. I remember debating with a TK member and mod on this forum about a more elaborate use of skill splits, for specific PvE/PvP balance purposes. I was very much in favor, and was never really given a good reason why there was so much opposition for such an approach. Now, it makes sense though.
Nevertheless, if what you're saying is true, then the situation in terms of coding and the resulting (lack of) skill updates is indeed pathetic.[
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Sep 12, 2010, 01:58 PM // 13:58
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#116
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Forge Runner
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Texas
Guild: Reign of Judgment [RoJ]
Profession: Me/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Meridon
Nevertheless, if what you're saying is true, then the situation in terms of coding and the resulting (lack of) skill updates is indeed pathetic.[
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It's true. The client degrades when they add more PvE/PvP splits, and affects game performance.
The client, from what I've heard, is a complete mess. I believe Errant actually confirmed that by talking to Linsey (when she was still with the Live Team).
Last edited by Karate Jesus; Sep 12, 2010 at 02:02 PM // 14:02..
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Sep 12, 2010, 02:01 PM // 14:01
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#117
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Aug 2010
Profession: D/Mo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Errant Venture
Quite honestly, it may be the most poorly coded MMO to have been spawned in the last 10 years.
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I can't help but agree. The oddities in mass enchantment removal (e.g. Mystic Sandstorm+Pious Renewal) point at some seriously questionable coding practices. As a programmer, I've tried to come up with scenarios in which the current functionality makes sense, but there just aren't any. They had a perfectly good LIFO stack working and then ignored it.
Normally I refrain from saying this sort of thing, because I know it's easy to be an armchair designer, but it could have been done better, in the obvious way.
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Sep 12, 2010, 02:06 PM // 14:06
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#118
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Forge Runner
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I've heard from reliable source that the client is garbage, but I don't see how skill updates and all can lagg all that much.
All skills are stored in a database saved on the server, not the client. (Otherwise, you could force your own skills through a client hack, which would be redicilous) The only thing the client does when you press a skill, is bring forth the data from the database, and I HIGHLY doubt there is much lagg involved into this.
The coding of the actual skills, however, is a different issue. There's a million ways to achieve a certain thing through coding. I have no doubt that in Guild Wars, alot of skills are coded in redicilously redundant ways (kinda like the skill notes pre-shortening). But again, for this to cause client lag, you'dd have to have a toddler write the code...
But there is definatly alot of stuff wrong with the client. Look at the amount of dupes in the past, even some that still exist, or the many other client hacks that exist. Security definatly wasn't the highest prioirity on Anet's list when they made GW.
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Sep 12, 2010, 04:16 PM // 16:16
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#119
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Banned
Join Date: May 2010
Guild: PonG
Profession: W/Mo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed u man
I've heard from reliable source that the client is garbage, but I don't see how skill updates and all can lagg all that much.
All skills are stored in a database saved on the server, not the client. (Otherwise, you could force your own skills through a client hack, which would be redicilous) The only thing the client does when you press a skill, is bring forth the data from the database, and I HIGHLY doubt there is much lagg involved into this.
The coding of the actual skills, however, is a different issue. There's a million ways to achieve a certain thing through coding. I have no doubt that in Guild Wars, alot of skills are coded in redicilously redundant ways (kinda like the skill notes pre-shortening). But again, for this to cause client lag, you'dd have to have a toddler write the code...
But there is definatly alot of stuff wrong with the client. Look at the amount of dupes in the past, even some that still exist, or the many other client hacks that exist. Security definatly wasn't the highest prioirity on Anet's list when they made GW.
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Mistakes are usually learned before countered, and unless they were born a prophet, or they had Einstein's brain, programmers cannot foresee everything. They first have to learn about it before they can fix things, and they eventually did!
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Sep 12, 2010, 04:20 PM // 16:20
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#120
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Frost Gate Guardian
Join Date: Sep 2008
Guild: Vent Rage [vR]
Profession: Mo/W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Killed u man
I've heard from reliable source that the client is garbage, but I don't see how skill updates and all can lagg all that much.
All skills are stored in a database saved on the server, not the client. (Otherwise, you could force your own skills through a client hack, which would be redicilous) The only thing the client does when you press a skill, is bring forth the data from the database, and I HIGHLY doubt there is much lagg involved into this.
The coding of the actual skills, however, is a different issue. There's a million ways to achieve a certain thing through coding. I have no doubt that in Guild Wars, alot of skills are coded in redicilously redundant ways (kinda like the skill notes pre-shortening). But again, for this to cause client lag, you'dd have to have a toddler write the code...
But there is definatly alot of stuff wrong with the client. Look at the amount of dupes in the past, even some that still exist, or the many other client hacks that exist. Security definatly wasn't the highest prioirity on Anet's list when they made GW.
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When I said "client" I probably wasn't specific enough. The actual structure of the server on anet's side and the way it communicates with you're computer is very messy. This communication is degraded when more skills are introduced to the game, though I'm not sure specifically how since no one outside of Anet has been able to see the client code and all the hints we have are from reversing captured packet logs.
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